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Wednesday, 10 March 2010
Europe is failing its Muslims?

Not according to Douglas Murray, once more debating with (Americans take note) Tariq Ramadan at Intelligence Squared. The debate was broadcast on BBC World Service which, predictably, censored Murray's words:

The motion was “Europe is Failing its Muslims”. I’m happy to say that Flemming Rose and I convincingly won the argument, with the audience voting overwhelmingly (and despite considerable intimidation in the hall on the night) that Europe is not in fact failing its Muslims.

The debate has been edited down for broadcast. My one gripe about this (except for the BBC’s inevitable censorship of my criticisms of the Muslim Council of Britain among other government-paid Muslim-groups - as reported by the Evening Standard here) is that they cut one crucially relevant case study I gave.

One of the two clerics who whipped up hatred against Denmark around the world, in the wake of my colleague Flemming’s commission of depictions of the historical figure Mohammed, arrived in Denmark from Lebanon in the 1990s. He went to Denmark because he has a disabled son. The country which he came from could not look after his child but he knew that Denmark would. And it did. He repaid the society by inciting hatred and violence against it. When such cases can be repeated ad nauseum, it should hardly even have to be pointed out how obscene the motion Flemming and I found ourselves debating really was.

It is grotesque to argue that Europe has failed its Muslims. It has been made repeatedly obvious that it is Islam that has failed Europe, indeed that it is Islam that has failed Muslims. I am delighted that the audience in the hall on the night agreed. And that most of the audience around the world who have emailed me since transmission – currently including people from as far afield as Nigeria, Pakistan and Iraq - appear to agree with that too.

Here it is, courtesy of YouTube. In England we can't get BBC World. Barely three seconds in, Ramadan uses the word "discourse", which alone makes him a liar:

Update: A perceptive comment from reader Larry Landsman, albeit containing the D-word:

In any debate, the audience contains people who feel strongly on either side. The very fact that the lack of civility during statements by presenters occurred exclusively when Douglas Murray was speaking supports his argument.

His opponents have not accepted the norms of Western society which enable us to carry on reasoned intellectual discourse and accept that others' cultural differences need not threaten us. Boos speak quite loudly.

Murray's opposition fails to recognize that they must examine their own attitudes in order to earn the right to criticize others. Perhaps this lesson doesn't appear in the Koran.

From the jeering in the audience and its mindless applause whenever a pro-Islam comment was made, you might have expected the motion to be carried. But there was a huge swing against. Take note, and ignore the shouters. Since Islam cannot win a debate, all it can do is shout.

Posted on 03/10/2010 2:25 PM by Mary Jackson
Comments
10 Mar 2010
Larry Landsman

 In any debate, the audience contains people who feel strongly on either side. The very fact that the lack of civility during statements by presenters occurred exclusively when Douglas Murray was speaking supports his argument.

His opponents have not accepted the norms of Western society which enable us to carry on reasoned intellectual discourse and accept that others' cultural differences need not threaten us. Boos speak quite loudly.

Murray's opposition fails to recognize that they must examine their own attitudes in order to earn the right to criticize others. Perhaps this lesson doesn't appear in the Koran.

 

 



10 Mar 2010
Alan R

 

 

For information; note the background and attitude of BBC chairperson here:

BBC's  Ms. ZAINAB BADAWI
 
-comes from a Muslim family (Sudan), and said (2007 'Independent' interview):  
 
"One has to be careful when one uses expressions like 'Muslim extremist' or 'Islamic extremist'. I would prefer 'Islamist' just as you have 'Pacifists' or people who use a religion in their own way. You could say it's just semantics but I do think that 'Islamic violence' makes it seems as though it's inherent."  
"Badawi says that 'as someone who comes from a British-Arab-African-Muslim background, I see now that public opinion does need a lot of guidance on a lot of issues.'"  
 
Watch out for Ms. Badawi's "guidance".  
 
 
Zainab the global messenger"  
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/zeinab-the-global-messenger-451561.html  
 



10 Mar 2010
Alan R

 

 

"We are all working our socks off for an Islamic superstate"

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100029416/islamist-blogpost-of-the-day-6-we-are-all-working-our-socks-off-for-an-islamic-superstate/

 

 



11 Mar 2010
Alan R

 

'Moderate' Islam in Britain: the case of Ms. Alibhai-Brown:

"Muslim anger rising in Britain: A portrait of Extremism from a prominent 'Moderate'"

(by Robin Shepherd)

http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/muslim-anger-rises-in-britain-a-portrait-of-extremism-from-a-prominent-moderate/#more-2329



13 Mar 2010
Send an emailEV

 Islam is failing and has failed humanity.



 
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